Curse

RoadKill97 · Apr 30, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Finesse is one thing but there is no room for finesse when you have people shooting for masters and other such t itles. The name of the game there is efficiency which translates to DPS. Paragons don't have it and their buffs don't significantly increase it. Point and Kill gets it done in PvE where basically if you have a higher DPS output than the mob you're fighting then you win. I can assure you of one thing. She will not be godly. While the build you use, with Anthem of Flame, burning spear and They're on Fire more than likely, has some utility I can get the same thing from a protection monk and the protection monk will do a better job.

The prot monk won't add much DPS to the team.

Paragon is a very strong character in a team with three or more physical damage dealers. He can deal damage by his own (spear attacks), by teammates ("GftE!" & Anthem of Flame) and still support the team defensively with stuff like Song of Restoration - all this in one bar! And they have way too much base armor... Imo, paragon armor should be reduced to 60 al.

traiur · Apr 30, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

A paragon is a warrior with a spear, and buffs on the side.

Actually I would argue that your statment is backwards there. The paragons are buffers with a spear on the side. Just take a look at the number of buff skills compared to spear skills. Heck they even had new mechanics added in. And what were these new mechanics? A new kind of buff.

Different people hate paragons for different reasons. Different classes hate them for different reasons. Rangers dont like them imposing upon their ranged territory (especially since rangers seem to be pushed out of that territory by the Para). Warriors don't like the "pansys" running around using their adrenaline. Elementalists hate that there is now another class that's armor is super effective yet covers nothing on them.

They are ranged warriors....its as simple as that. The emphasis of their role is changed slightly, but the mechanics are basically the same.

lightblade · Apr 30, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

Funniest thing I read all day. I literally rofl'd. If I were you, I wouldn't call others idiots.

I'm sorry, but I agree on Paragon being overpowered. While Paragon's damage output isn't all that great (their spear attacks are mostly conditional), they act as a great shield that shields the backline casters. Paragons are extremely effective against pressure, either it's from conditions or hex.

Other than that, I think Paragon is pretty bad at protecting itself, other than that 80 armor.

Skuld · Apr 30, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by traiur

Actually I would argue that your statment is backwards there. The paragons are buffers with a spear on the side. Just take a look at the number of buff skills compared to spear skills. Heck they even had new mechanics added in. And what were these new mechanics? A new kind of buff.

Different people hate paragons for different reasons. Different classes hate them for different reasons. Rangers dont like them imposing upon their ranged territory (especially since rangers seem to be pushed out of that territory by the Para). Warriors don't like the "pansys" running around using their adrenaline. Elementalists hate that there is now another class that's armor is super effective yet covers nothing on them.

They are ranged warriors....its as simple as that. The emphasis of their role is changed slightly, but the mechanics are basically the same.

But the buffs are mostly trash, they were hit hard in balances. Spears are incredible.

@Series ~ heres some example builds, run them for a bit with 16 spear, 10+2 leadership and 9 command and you'll see the potential and what is meant by unlimited energy

[skill]cruel spear[/skill][skill]spear of lightning[/skill][skill]harrier's toss[/skill][skill]anthem of flame[/skill][skill]"go for the eyes!"[/skill][skill]aggressive refrain[/skill][skill]mirror of disenchantment[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

[skill]focused anger[/skill][skill]blazing spear[/skill][skill]spear of lightning[/skill][skill]vicious attack[/skill][skill]"go for the eyes!"[/skill][skill]"stand your ground!"[/skill][skill]aggressive refrain[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Crazyvietguy · Apr 30, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Skuld is correct in PvP a team of paragons is VERY powerful. Reason being they can spam heals, defenses, attack buffs and IAS... All while chucking spears and lighting their enemies up with burning.

However in PvE Paragons can hardly hold their own. Now I play a paragon in PvE, I actually enjoy it. I play a P/Rt, more effective than one might think. You just gotta fit your playstyle.

You can also do melee damage with a Paragon, P/W.

Llint · Apr 30, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

Skuld called them insanely overpowered, not "anything near underpowered". That was what he said and it was by far the funniest thing I have read all day.

Unlimited energy? Please. Is that the new HA slander card? "OMFG THAT PROFESSION HAS UNLIMITED ENERGY IT NEEDS TO BE NERFED!!!" It seems like every profession has "unlimited" energy nowadays. Ha. Neverending IAS? Good! Spear is a crap weapon otherwise. Show me a good spear build that doesn't need an IAS of some sort. Insanely spammable attack skills? Do you have any justification in saying that they have "insanely spammable attack skills" and the other combat professions don't? What exactly makes the paragon attack skills more spammable than, say, a warrior? And you really think 80 armor lets them wade into the backline ignoring damage? Wow, thanks! I never thought of that! ...wait a minute... don't warriors have 80+ armor? Why aren't they completely invincible? Oh right, because you know nothing about the Paragon and are just pulling crap out of your ass.

Skuld and you are both wrong. All that sounds good in theory. Lets see it in practice. I have yet to see a good GvG guild run your "uber gon/monk" build. If it was invincible as you say it is, I bet people wouldn't pass up on it. But... they do. Well, the good players do at least.

[Meow] is riding the ladder with 5 paragons right now. OBS more, and maybe play paragon a little better.

free_fall · Apr 30, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I don't want to get into the debate over whether Paras suck or not, all I can say is that I've been enjoying playing mine. I actually like the gleaming white armor, too, tho the nipples are, ahem, maybe a bit much.

As I'm going for 2nd rank of Survivor with him (just over 500k XP at this point), I only play him with H&H, so I'm not sure how much of my experience translates into playing with other players, but I've found:

> it's pretty easy to maintain +3H regen on the entire party, which certainly lightens the load on the healers; of course, it's a PITA to stop every 10 steps/seconds to give another shout to keep it going but I've gotten used to it.

> once I've gotten everyone set up with Mending Refrain, cast Aggressive Rain on myself and gotten my blue bar back to full, it pretty much stays full since the 5E Anthem of Flame returns 6E and I use only 1 5E spear skill which regens on its own between uses, while the Furious spear, aided by AR, keeps the adrenaline flowing for the other skills.

IF I get to 2nd rank, I'll immediately let this guy die - too lonely, for one thing, and too nerve-racking having to play so carefully, can't imagine wanting to do it for another 750k XP lol - and see how well this works in a group of other players.

<build attached> how does one show the skill bar in the message, like the previous post?

clawofcrimson · Apr 30, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Wow that is a lot of posts in just a few hours! You guys are too fast for me.

Paragons are my second favourite class! Wait until I finish my guide and you will see why.

And yes Zedd, you are right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedd Kun

We already have a thread about this, go to PvE forum under Paragon, you'll find it there.

please direct your comments here.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10144977

closed